Episode 45 - Budgeting with kids with nilam patel
Show Notes
Nilam is back again! And this time she is giving us all the details on how she budgets with her kiddos. In this episode, we talk about how our childhood habits with money affect the way we spend and save, and of course, how we can teach our kids to do better. We also have a special announcement in the intro - stay tuned for our new launch!
(1) Kids and Allowances
(2) How Nilam handles budgeting and money talk with her kiddos (yep, birthdays and Christmas presents, too!)
(3) teaching kids and taking care of things
Intro and Outro music: Dreamer by Noah Smith
FULL TRANSCRIPT
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Intro: Hey listeners. It's Evonne. And I want to share with you that this is the last episode of Lost & Refound. But it will be the first episode of Million Ways to Shine. Million Ways to Shine will still be a space where you can come to when you're lost between your passion projects and your nine to five, where you're ready to take steps towards your life goals and learn how to balance your goals with time and resources. Please join me on the journey to channel our thoughts into actions and we grow together. Hope you enjoy our 45th episode!
Evonne Lau: Hi guys. You're listening to Lost & Refound. So this is Evonne, and I have Yan and Nilam here. this is the third time we're having on Nilam she is one of our really good friends and we love having her on. We just cannot stop talking to her and asking her about how she manages her budget.
So today we have a very special episode where we're going into budgeting with family and going into details about how to budget for kids. And also how to teach kids about finance and how to work on their finances. I don't know about you guys, but when I was learning finances, when I was younger, it was really just "save all your money.
Don't spend it, or you can only buy books or only use school, uh, school related activities for it. So that's what I'm really excited to hear from Nilam and how she teaches her kids, how to raise very financially fiscal children. All right. Um, so Neela. Uh, take it away. First of all, let's start with how old your kids are.
Nilam Patel: Um, well, hi, thank you so much for having me back again. I always love chatting with you ladies on the podcast. So I have a very newly nine-year-old and an 11 year old, both.
Evonne Lau: Perfect. And I know that your older one definitely is the leader in the households. He's very, very responsible. And then you have your second one. Who's a little bit more fun, maybe a little bit more mischievous. And how do they currently budget their own, uh, their own, uh, do we call them. I was about to say salaries. No, you don't give a salary to your child. What are they called again, guys?
Nilam Patel: Allowance.
Evonne Lau: What do they do with their allowance?
Nilam Patel: So, um, my personal rule of thumb, which I've kind of gotten over the years of just figuring out what I thought would be best for them is, I give them a dollar amount per week that's equivalent to their age. So my nine-year-old, while he now gets $9 a week and my 11 year old gets $11 a week. Um, and that's how I kind of decided how they would get their allowance.
And they, they have to do work to get their money. Just like we adults do. We have to complete work to get our money. And they only get paid once a week. So same with adults because I want them to learn delayed gratification and that you can't get one right. When you want it. You know, I don't ever give like an advance on their allowance.
They have to learn to kind of wait. But their income will. So they have a list of chores they have to do, um, that they can refer back to. And, um, they have to finish their homework and things like that. So what I've done, I've opened up bank accounts for them. I have, um, a chase bank account. My son. And if a parent or a guardian has a chase account, they can open up a chase first banking account for free for their children.
And it's really fun because you can easily transfer your money into their accounts. You can set financial goals and, um, they can also separate their money into buckets, so savings, um, a goal, and then like spend money and things like that.
Yan Wang: Wow, my kids don't. I mean for, okay. First of all, welcome back Nilam. At this point, you should just be the third host of this podcast. And, um, that's pretty impressive because my kids have no concept of money. My kids are my older one is 10. Now my younger one's six. And when I give them allowance, when they get like Chinese New Year, they get money in their red envelopes, they just going to toss it around. Like they don't even, they don't have any concept of, Oh, this money I can use to spend. Because for them, I think it was very much whatever I want, it shows up front of the door from Amazon in like two days. So, and you know, so for them, they don't understand why they need money. And obviously I have not educated them about that.
Um, I don't put them on that budgets. Um, you know, I definitely say they're very spoiled at this point. So how, how should I start? Because you know, like I said, when I try to tell them, Hey, If you do some chores, I'll give you $5 a week. And right now they did it for one week cause they needed some money for Robux.
Um, and they can only, and I told them I wasn't gonna give them money for video games. And so they both did chores for one week, got five bucks and they have not done chores since! And they do not need any more money because they have enough Robux for now.
Nilam Patel: Nice. Oh, that's, that's, that's pretty common. I mean, it's pretty common for kids to kind of have that mentality that, um, uh, mentality of kind of, I want it now. And then, you know, I don't need anything at the moment. So why do anything? The motivation isn't there? There's a couple of different ways that we could start talking with kids about money.
It really depends on how old your kiddos. So if you've got kiddos on the younger side, like four to seven ish, three to seven, you can start with just kind of working on identifying coins and dollar amounts, counting money, counting change. And the biggest thing you could do is just like pretend to play grocery store or play bank, which kids love to do.
Pretend, play stuff anyways. So working on like a store or something, and then assigning dollar amounts and they have to purchase things that helps them. Start to put in food, into their minds. The idea items just don't appear in our house for free. We have to exchange cash for the item. If we don't have the cash, we can't buy the item.
So that's kind of like a, a starter for, for the younger kiddos. as you're getting into slightly older kiddos, like ages, maybe eight to 12 or so. So your, your target range. That's when you start talking about, what I prefer to start talking about my actual budgets and my income. And showing them how to like use coupons potentially or stack deals.
Um, comparison shopping is really important at this age. Knowing how to read reviews, to find bang for your buck, finding a deal, um, giving. You know, being generous and giving to charities and setting financial goals. So, whereas they needed the Robux for that one week and they got the cash for. This is the time where we can start pushing them to set bigger goals where it may take them several weeks to earn the money.
And not only will this kind of extend that motivation, but it'll also kind of work a little bit on that impulsivity and having to wait for the thing you want having to earn the money and save it to get to that item that you want.
Yan Wang: Yeah. That's something that you teach myself first. Definitely if I want something, I'm going on Amazon. So I have to teach myself first, then teach my daughter afterwards!
Evonne Lau: Do you think that that's also something that they did learn from you where,um, Nilam, where your sons probably saw you being so self-conscious, um, and calculative, just cause that's how you're doing the budget? And then they're curious. And so they start learning from you whether, um, whether you knew it or not.
Nilam Patel: Yeah. You know, I include them in all aspects of my financial and budgeting kind of day-to-day stuff that I do. So I actually have a notepad where I write everything down because I'm hella old school like that.
Evonne Lau: Wait, are those your purchases? She just held up in a list of ... is that your daily, monthly purchases?
Nilam Patel: One side is one month and now I'm on the next side for that it's current month.
Yan Wang: Wow.
Evonne Lau: look, listeners. She's calculating everything, not with Excel, but hand calculating everything per month.
Nilam Patel: Oh, thanks. So comforting, warm and comforting about my notepad and my pen. Can't
Evonne Lau: that impressive? And the fact that you actually don't have your own template, you just made a template. You make your own template, you didn't use a template from somebody else. And so you wrote down all your daily purchases, including is that including your household budget as well, or just your random purchases?
Nilam Patel: Anything that comes out of my, um, account goes on this paper. Um, and it's so popular now in our house that like, anytime we talk about buying something like the kids run over and they're they grab the notepad first.
Evonne Lau: They add to it.
Nilam Patel: Let's figure it out. Like how much money do we have? You know, like, can we buy this item? You know, when his mom be getting paid next, like what's that money being allocated to? So they, they see me do this for like years and years and years of like using no pads. And so, and they know how much when I get my bills, how much my bills are.
Not to like, cause extra like stress or uncertainty on their shoulders because they're just kids, but just so that they can be involved with adulting staff in general. So they helped me cook. They helped me do a lot of things around the house. They helped me like change light bulbs. Um, just in general. I want them to be involved with my life and I want us to feel the three of us as a team.
So we always, like, I always say that like, we're a team, so we're all gonna do our chores together. We're all gonna work together. Like, and that's just part of that. The budgeting stuff.
Yan Wang: You guys, my kids don't do shit.
Evonne Lau: And maybe it takes time. I mean, Nilam, right? Where's your kids just one day. Like they pick that up. It takes time. I'm sure.
Nilam Patel: It does take time and, and nothing's perfect. You know, like my younger one is so mischievous and he negotiates a lot and he thought I could tell he's going to be like a future business guy, because he, all he does is do like a wink and a smile. And he's like, I can get whatever I want. I got this lady wrapped around my finger, you know?
Evonne Lau: It sounds like he'll be good at supply chain.
Nilam Patel: Yeah. You know, he's, he's got something in him. I swear. And it's never like a perfect, it's never perfect. You know, there's always mistakes. I still get impulsive. I still buy things about like referring to the notebook first, you know, life.
Yan Wang: And I gave my kids their laundry to do... my older one will do her own laundry. I mean, I seen folding her and putting her own clothes. My younger one sat there for three hours crying, and did not do one thing. So every time we have to help. And by helping her, it means we do 90% and she does 10%. So I need to be, I need to really kind of, I need to crack the whip. I need to be a Chinese mom will happen to me.
Evonne Lau: well, that's actually a good question. Nilam, what happens if they don't do their chores or they were, did they did something that you didn't approve of? Like, do you just take money away or like money is not used as a punishment?
Nilam Patel: That's a great question. And it actually ties in a lot to the work I do with my, um, for my job applied behavior analysis. Um, I do use principles of behavior analysis with my kids because this is a big behavioral thing. You know, money and finance. Um, I can't, I don't feel comfortable removing staff removing money or withholding money, unless I'm very clear with them, what the expectations are.
So we have like a list written down in the kitchen where it says exactly what they have to do to earn their accounts. And what happens if they don't do it, like that's written down for them. So there's no, like, so even me as a mom, like it's, so it would be so easy for me to be like, oh, I don't, I don't feel like it.
So I'm just changing the rules up, like, you know, in the moment it's so easy to do that because I'm the adult anyways. Like I can make rules, I can make things up if I want to. And kids just have to listen because they're European adult. Right. But this way, like not only does it keep the kids in line, but it keeps me in line as if.
Like, no, you did X, Y, Z, but you didn't do easy. So you get exactly this much of your mouth or whatever, if that makes sense.
Evonne Lau: It does make sense. And it sounds, I was about to say like a job description, like a contract in itself, not because you're formalizing your very real relationship with your family that I know is based on love. Um, but it it's helpful. I think just always reminding each other about the responsibilities of what you, what you would like to do.
Like it's the communication, right? Like, Hey, if mom, I don't really feel like doing that. Okay. Well tell me why. And then you have a conversation about it instead of saying like, oh no, you have to, I think re for me, at least when I was younger, when I was just told, oh, just because. Then that just never really sat well with me, especially if anyone that knows me, then I'll do exactly you told me not to do, because I need to understand why.
And it just keep wanting to push the boundaries. Right. Kids want to do that. Anybody curious will always keep pushing the boundaries.
Nilam Patel: Yeah. You know, and, and there's leeway with these kind of like chores or work that they have to do around the house, because I have to allow them to have bad days. Cause there's days where I'm like, I, I'm not doing my work. I'm not cooking a nice dinner. I'm worried, you know, I'm not going to fold the laundry.
I'm going to leave it in the basket or something. Cause I'm having a bad day. I, myself. So that's included in there. I allow for them to have their bad days or days where they don't want to do their chores, but they can still earn their money, which I think is fair because I do the same thing. I can't expect them to be better than me.
Yan Wang: That's a really fair. That's pretty fair. I don't usually hear parents and say that, you know, it's usually the parents' rules and you stick to the rules and if you messed up, then you don't get the money or whatever it is, the pump they promise. So I like that rule that, you know, allow for those bad days.
Nilam Patel: Yeah. Could you imagine if our bosses, like, if we weren't a hundred percent all the time and our bosses were like, oh, dock you 100 bucks... This app up to $200 that day, like we would be so fearful all the time about messing up and I don't want my kids to feel that way ever.
Evonne Lau: Especially with you as a parent.
Yan Wang: Yeah.
Nilam Patel: Yeah.
Evonne Lau: And this also kind of reminds me back of our last conversation. Just money, mindset and habits, because I grew up with that other mindset, money was a punishment. If I didn't do something, then it was removed or I didn't get something. Um, and you had that scarcity mindset.
This makes a lot of sense. Like you're not teaching your kids, like all the bad habits that maybe you had to go through, or that were maybe very traditionally used to teach kids. So I like the way that you're talking about the allowance, it's, it's also makes a lot of sense for me to I'm like, Hmm, I wonder how I can value myself a little bit more. And get myself a mini allowance and allow myself, oh, this is how much I should spend this week. Is that also what you do too? You're nodding your head. Yes.
Nilam Patel: Oh, yes. Yes. I mean, it's so important to make sure that we. Allow ourselves, those kinds of like treats or self-care within reason. So if your budget says, you can spend $5 a week, go get yourself back coffee, you go get yourself a look last, like do what you do. You want to do to make yourself feel happy and comfortable with that amount.
Um, there are certain people, you know, press TV, personalities, or whatever out there that are more strict about it. Like you have to cancel all your debt. You have to be intense about it and you can't spend any money on yourself. That's just a way to drive yourself into the ground. That's punishing,
Evonne Lau: Hmm.
Nilam Patel: but your budget allows you, whether it's 30 bucks a week or a hundred bucks a week or $5 a week and make it work.
And, and if you're not having that bad of a week, maybe you don't spend your $5 that week and you wait until the next week and you spend $10 or something, you know, sell yourself out.
Evonne Lau: Yeah. And, and kind of going back to, along the lines of special occasion, um, for kids when they're thinking, oh, this is Christmas, or this is a present that I'm getting for my friend, how do you budget for those special holidays or gifts that you're giving to other people?
Nilam Patel: That's a great question. I actually, um, I actually do something a little different for birthday parties. That's another thing where kids kind of just. This party to magically appear in front of their eyes with like a cake and guests and party bads and entertainment. And it just appeared and maybe happy about X, Y, Z.
Um, but they love, you know, different things about it and to kind of offset some of that, this beautiful party just appeared. And they have no idea that if it costs you like maybe a thousand dollars or a couple thousand dollars for this party, Is all set the budget for the party. And then I'll tell my son here's the money.
Tell me how you want to spend it. And I help him with organizing the items. I help them with research. I help them with figuring out what's important to him, but that way, if something does have to get cut, or if the cake is a little smaller, um, or if the music is a little different or something, instead of being surprised that the party and they're like, oh, the cakes are the way I wanted it.
I didn't get to. Tommy and Susie to my party, you know, like they might be upset about those things. They're the ones spearheading it. They're the ones deciding like, okay, it's important to me to have a nice cake, so I'll spend more money for that, but it's less important for me to have good music. So I'll put less money to that.
And it's all like, based off of what they want, how they want to allocate their money, what they researched to be important to them. And that way it kind of puts it back into their hands. If anything. They're creating the party that they want and they're helping organize it themselves with the budget that you have.
So you're kind of putting it back into their hands.
Yan Wang: I love that. And I I bet you, that also makes the party more special too, because it's not just that one day it happened, but something that they'd been looking forward to, they'd be planning the whole time and they feel like they have control over exactly what they wanted instead of giving you a theme.
And then you have of fill in the blanks and, you know, and then go surprise, which is, again, my kids, surprise, here's the party they're really happy. And three days later they're like, well happened into the party?
Nilam Patel: Uh, or they keep like my son, he just has a birthday. He keeps changing his mind constantly up until the day of the, you know, his birthday weekend. Um, and this kind of helps them also stop with that impulsivity or at least kind of curb it a little bit and make those decisions and stick to the decision because the payment has been made or, or whatever, or even as little as like I wanted to vanilla cake and you got me a chocolate cake.
Will you change your mind? Like all that messiness is like out of the pro it's, it's not even a problem anymore.
Evonne Lau: when you're talking with your kids about, uh, even just the birthdays, I'm sure that they feel really proud of making the decisions. And also, I don't th I don't know if they're really thinking, oh yeah, this makes my mom proud that I can do this really well. But I think there's a sense of pride being like, oh my gosh, I made something and I planned something that was all made by me.
Nilam Patel: Yes. And that's so important too, with all of this is, is making sure you do have that kind of like oomph of encouragement and pride when it comes to these things. Um, it will really help them with making good decisions as they become adults too.
Evonne Lau: Um, and has there been an example of one moment where your boys have done something or you're thinking, wow, that's really impressive. I'm so glad I taught you that, or I'm so glad that you learned.
Nilam Patel: actually, yes. So my older son, he's 11 and he's turning 12 later this summer, he's actually started independently looking at colleges. I did a little here and there, but, um, you know, and they know that I have a college fund for them, but then on his own, he just started to say to me, no, mommy, I think I'm going to look up some colleges to see which ones, how much they cost, the ones that are around, you know, San Jose, where we live, where I live.
And I was like, really? And he's like, yeah. So we pulled up the laptop and he's like, um, let's look at this university and let's look at the tuition for that university. And I'm like, oh my God, my heart like melted in my chest because that is like something people really don't think about. I look at my tuition whatsoever until I graduated with a hundred K of student loans and I'm like, oh boy, Great at all.
So the fact that he's starting to look into that now as like an almost 12 year old and start fighting for it. That makes me so happy because that just makes me feel like he's really setting himself up for good financial future.
Yan Wang: That is super impressive. Um, how did your parents, how did your parents teach you or talk to you about finances when you were a little.
Nilam Patel: My mom tried. She gave me a little blocks where I could keep my cash in there and then a little old checkbook. So I could write checks, text to her if I wanted to buy something, had like an index card, which essentially I wrote all of my purchases down on and I kept that in the. But, um, my parents were the same as yours, Evonne, where they just wanted me to save, save, save, save, saved, but it didn't teach me the value of the dollar whatsoever because I didn't know.
It didn't matter to me if I had a hundred bucks or 200 bucks. All I know is I have stepped in this box and I can't really use it. So what's the point. And what can I do? You know what I mean? Like w what do I do with this? It means nothing to me.
Evonne Lau: Yeah. And also, I was then not able to understand how much to spend on something. Like, what's the difference. If there's a lotion that costs $10 and a lotion that costs a hundred dollars, I have a hundred dollars. Why don't I buy the a hundred dollars? So that seems like it's going to be great. That didn't, that doesn't help because the guys, especially, you know, when I was really stressed, especially when I was younger, I would want to buy things.
I would want to feel power. And that's how I felt powerful. Okay. Spending my cash spending my money. And, and before we joined the call was like talking about how sometimes we go buy things, right. Like me and my friends will buy stuff. We'll go to the mall, have a good time. And we come home with bags and bags and bags of things.
Those bags sit in our house unopened for probably a week until I finally open up and say like, oh yeah, I forgot I bought this two weeks ago. So how important was that purchase? Really?
Yan Wang: That's my case. That's my case with Amazon boxes say, will literally say those boxes may seem there for a week and you have not even touched them. Yea, impulse buying.
Evonne Lau: yeah. Or sometimes we have boxes that randomly show up and I need to open boxes right now. Now it's just a habit. I need to open boxes. I D I need to know what's inside them. And so I'll be like, Malinka like, why are these boxes here? It's like, um, I bought something, but I just don't remember. This is exactly what the one blood by now or those types of impulse buttons.
It's so easy. You have your credit card on file. You don't have to go up and remember your number. I'm very rememorized I think my credit card number, or like my mom's credit card number at some age, just to be able to do these purchases by myself, but now with those buy now buttons, I mean, dangerous, very, very dangerous.
Nilam Patel: It is dangerous, especially with like two days shipping. I mean, like you just, you don't have to wait. It's, everything's stored in there. It, it, it's really hard to not buy into, like, it's easy to do that to just buy stuff
Evonne Lau: Yeah. And even for. For kids right when you're waiting. So I think that when you're teaching them that you have to wait, you can't have instant gratification, certainly for, you know, big, big things. That's very important because we had that luxury of waiting like 5, 6, 6 months for a shipping. What if it was coming from overseas, but now everyone's expecting two day shipping or where is it?
And getting really frustrated if they don't get exactly what they want or if the store has something out of stock and they wanted that day. Well, you got to go back to the store and get it. Like you got to wait, sorry.
Nilam Patel: Yeah, my and my younger one, he really struggles with impulsivity. Like the moment he earns a dollar, he wants to spend a dollar. Even if he has like a $20 something in mind that he wants to buy like Pokemon something. It doesn't matter when he has that dollar in front of his face. He wants to go to the store and blow it on a dollar candy or something.
So the one little, one little thing that I have when it comes to their spending, they do have to like, you know, research the item to make sure that it's legit and that's good. Um, and they want it. But then also I have a three-day rule, where once they decide what they want, they have to wait three days to buy it.
If they still want it, I let them buy it. And I can't say anything, even if it's for a stupid dollar candy bar. When I know they're trying to save 20 bucks, I can't, I'm not allowed to say anything. I'd find we'll go to the store and you can have your rules.
Evonne Lau: Wow.
Yan Wang: I need that rule too. You should just teach me. Obviously I can
Evonne Lau: be
Yan Wang: children. I'm doing everything wrong.
Evonne Lau: Yeah. You should just teach class, Nilam, of how to, just how to give these tips. Like these are golden golden tips.
Nilam Patel: It's hard though. Like it's, you're you're so right. It's completely in mindset. It does make you, it can make you feel powerful. I know when I spend money, I feel more like a baller or, you know, I've got the money to spend this and spend for that. I definitely feel terrible doing it. You know, it's, it's totally, it's totally psychological, totally behavioral to spend money or to overeat, or to keep your house clean.
Like everybody has their things, you know, and this is just one of them. That's just the one, like another thing that we have to try and like fit in our lives of adulting.
Evonne Lau: Good point and oh, we didn't talk about Christmas. So then how do you, do you, do you set a different budget for Christmas or do you actually have it as a surprise?
Nilam Patel: Yes. So before Christmas, I have both of them send me a list and then I tell them how much money I'm going to spend for their Christmas presents. And so then they get to choose out of their list, which are the ones that are the most important. And then of course, I surprise them with a couple of extra things from their list or just things I know that.
Um, but, but because they, they tend to be like, oh, I just wanteda Nintendo Switch. And three $50 games, like, okay. That's like five bucks, but sure. Let me just buy it for you. You know? No, I want, I want you to know what I'm buying. I want you to know what I'm spending with this money, you know? Oh, and that's another thing.
This might sound stupid, but I always call my money, our money. I think that's really important to me. I don't know why I have this team mentality with the three of us, but I always refer to the money that I earn is our money. So it feels more like we're doing this too. Like we're deciding together as a family, how we're spending our money, unless like I'm the, you know, dictator over what they get to buy and like what I'm going to buy for them.
So, this is just the Christmas presents and birthday presents is just one part of that with them helping decide what they want our money to go towards.
Evonne Lau: Even for them, for you? Like, do you also give them your list of things that you would like, or you just tell them? No, like I'm your mom....
Nilam Patel: No, no, no, no. They just, they like make me handmade cards or, um, one time for my birthday last year they made like a, um, they drew like a dance pad for me on the floor with like, and then like all these arrows pointing downward and they made me toast in the morning. Um, so like that, that, Yan, you sighed, because that's adorable.
And like that's what melts your heart as a mom, you know? So like that means a lot more to me than, you know, them buying me something or whatever,
Yan Wang: So you don't say, I want this for Christmas. You're not getting allowance for two months. That's my Christmas gift.
Nilam Patel: Mommy's turn for something!
Yan Wang: Do you talk to them about taxes?
Nilam Patel: That's such a great question. So that's actually part of my list of things that I would talk about with like teenagers, like 13. So when you have kiddos around that age, I would start talking to them about taxes. Um, not just income taxes, but sales taxes, filing your taxes, federal and state taxes. Um, Start calculating for those bigger items, like potentially purchasing a car at some point, which usually happens around 16 or 17.
Um, and then subsequently car insurance and how that works, health insurance, renter's insurance for their future. You know, once they fly the nest, um, starting to learn how to allocate items, allocate your money towards rent, groceries, utilities. Yeah. As he, Bonnie alluded to like how much they should cost, you know, like we don't as a kid or like, you know, as a teen, you don't know if utilities costs $10 or 150, there's no number there.
So just starting to put those numbers in their mind, like this is about how much rent costs is about how much I spend for groceries every week. Um, also important to, to start talking to them about is credit card. And credit card fees and interest rates. I know when I got my first credit card, I had no idea that if I didn't pay it off in full, there would be fees and interest rate interest attached.
I had no idea. I just was suckered in by the people on the camp, college campus with their, their tables.
Yan Wang: Yep. I maxed out my capital one card real fast.
Evonne Lau: Yeah.
Nilam Patel: Yes. I maxed out that card and I kept a balance on it. And then I said, I'll just get another card.
Yan Wang: Yeah.
no concept guys. Adulting sucks. Okay. I don't want to adult anymore.
Evonne Lau: So, yeah, the credit card thing was definitely a fear. Again, I like that that's a trend. I definitely was scared of money and scared of debt when I was younger. Um, and that, and because of that, I never took risks. And that's where, I don't know if we're going to talk about the stock market with your kids or even cryptocurrency, right?
Like there's a little bit of risk when you're in these types of. Um, money-making investment ideas. And I guess just practices really. And so, because of that, I'm not, I don't even care to learn, which is terrible. Don't don't be like me. You should learn. You should learn. You should empower yourself with this knowledge because it's very, very important. But I am still, I sometimes I still go back and it's like those old habits.
So are you also, I'm talking about stock market too, um, with your children?
Nilam Patel: Yeah. I definitely talked to them about investing in my retirement accounts and, um, my rentals and things like that. They [00:32:00] know all about that stuff. Now, whether they understand it and can apply it in any way, it's probably just a bunch of me going, like, wah, wah, wah, wah wah? Cause it is pretty high level stuff.
Evonne Lau: pretty high level. Yeah.
Nilam Patel: Yeah. So even when I showed like every month, I'll show them their college accounts in the us I'll show them like, oh, look, you earned 8% interest and you got $10 this, this week, or whenever from it. They're just like, uh, okay, sure. That's good. Like they, it's just too hard. It's. It's too over their heads at this age, but I still want to expose them to it.
So they see all that my, all my retirement, they see all my investing, but I speak about it very briefly because I don't want to get to the point with them where they're like, okay, mom enough, I don't word you're saying.
Yan Wang: And do you tell them, like, not, not to talk to their friends about everything you're sharing with?
Nilam Patel: Well, luckily since they're still in COVID, it's not like they, you know, talk with their friends too much, but to be honest, I don't think they talk. I think they're more excited about what's in their own accounts. They seem to talk about that quite a bit. Of what they have saved. I don't think they really care or understand how much I have saved.
Evonne Lau: Well, that's good. So then they have the sense of like pride and the sense of willing to give. The fact that you're teaching them about charities as well. I think that's also really important that you can give more and you can still give back without giving away everything, but just a little bit helps everybody.
Nilam Patel: Yeah, I think, I think it's not for everyone that it's kind of a, an issue that some people like don't like to talk about. Because not everybody is interested in, in donating or generosity or charity, which is there anyone's prerogative. It's completely fine, whether you're able to want to, or don't want to. Um, and not to force them to. But I definitely put that in their mind, you know, that, um, we have, we have clothes, we have food, we have a shelter, you know? Um, it's nice to be able to give back to people who don't. Um, and my son was learning about autism the other day through his class, his school, his own class. And he's like, oh, I think I want to give a little bit of money to, to autism speaks. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, that sounds nice. Like he researched on his own and he decided, and I'm like, okay, great. Like, let's do it then. Um, my younger one obviously has spent his dollar, so he's not giving right now, but maybe the future, he might.
Yan Wang: Younger runs sound a lot, like my younger ones. Except he knows more than my younger one. And he's younger than my younger one.
Nilam Patel: I was a younger child and I feel, I feel myself in him sometimes. Because I know that I was a little bit like mischievous and stuff like that. Um, and at the end of the day, you teach them what you can teach them and you try your best, and then you let them fly when they're 18. And if they make funks and if they fall on the ground, you just help them out. But then you kind of just have to hope for the best.
Yan Wang: Yeah, my younger one's more like my husband. So I'm also, that's your fault.
Evonne Lau: Yeah.
Yan Wang: not me. And those are not my genes.
Evonne Lau: Oh, dear. I wonder what will happen when I have babies. And so I definitely know that we're going to have some spending problems with, with some of them, hopefully that we can start implementing some good habits. So that they can fight the fight, the genetics that they started off with. Not like it's not an issue.
Malinka has no problem, like is really, really good with money actually. And he speaks a lot, like you were, it's very logical and almost intuitive to him were saying, oh, of course like you, if you put your money in here, Switch your accounts like he has no problem closing and opening accounts for better interests.
That's again, terrifying to me. I never want to move anything. It's inside this box in my mind that I don't want to touch. Um, and I think a lot, and again, a lot of it was bad habits that I learned when I was a child. Um, and do you guys have any pets?
Nilam Patel: No pets.
Evonne Lau: Pets. Um, cause I was about to ask like, have you have they had to take care of a little something themselves or had to sell anything of their own to understand money in that sense and that transaction?
Nilam Patel: You know? No, they haven't had to. Um, they haven't ever, um, had to take care of anyone younger than them or a pet. They have donated some, some of their toys are sold some of their toys. Um, you know, I never looped back with them to see kind of what they thought about that or how they felt about that process. They were things that they were, they didn't want to play with and they didn't enjoy anymore.
Anyways, actually, I don't know.
Evonne Lau: I'll be very curious to see, like what, what happens, um, when they have like a little something to take care of. Cause that was a really big shock to me. I think when I started when I was growing up with like, oh my gosh, like, how can I take care of something? I still don't have a pet for that. Very reason. Yan, and like, when did you first, like start having a dog for your
Yan Wang: I was for my kids. I had a god, way before my kids? I got Jojo when I was In college. in college.
Evonne Lau: In college.
Yan Wang: Cause I was always my dream to have a dog. And my stepdad wouldn't let me have a dog. So, as soon as I was able to, I got a dog. I didn't think about finances actually.
It was very tough because obviously I didn't research a breed. I didn't like, I didn't really do any research. I just got a puppy and I had to move three times that year because my beagle was Holly. He has separation anxiety. He will how the minute I leave. So I had to move three times a year. It was, I almost had to give him up.
Luckily I met my husband right before. I'm a writer on time when I was just like having a really hard time with him. And then I met my husband. We moved in together really quickly. And that was that.
Evonne Lau: And yeah, so, and good stuff came out of that because I know for sure. I'm just even thinking about the insurance and having a pet like that, that all adds up. And sometimes kids don't know that that's in itself, like a reason to think about, it's not just having a dog or someone to love. You have to take care of it in all aspects of ways, especially when it gets sick.
Like what happens and what do you do?
Nilam Patel: Yeah. I think the responsibility of having a pet is really great for kids. It's a really great kind of stepping stone into learning all those different things. Like you're mentioning walking the dog, taking care of the dog, what to do when the dog gets sick or cat apex. So I think it is a great, um, opportunity yet at really making a more well-rounded empathetic kiddo as well.
Evonne Lau: Yeah, something to think about. I just don't want the, everything to fall back on me to take care of at the end of the day. So I just have to be very, very careful with what
Nilam Patel: Yeah.
Yan Wang: on Evonne. That's going to happen, especially knowing you. I know that's all gonna
fall on
Evonne Lau: I love taking care of things.
Yan Wang: Pretty much 90% stuff falls on me, so
Evonne Lau: I know, and like well one, that started, like, for me, it also started because in my mind, no one can clean the way I cleaned. Like no one can clean it to the way I want to clean it and we can do it the way I want to do it. So therefore, let, just let me do it. And that just sets a bad precedence. Also learn for me guys. Don't don't follow that.
Yan Wang: well, that's actually true in my house. I do have to do.
Evonne Lau: Oh,
Yan Wang: No, but we have a cleaner, thank God. Otherwise I would die.
Evonne Lau: Um, oh, and that kind of goes back to, um, just lessons. So when I was a kid, I did a lot of like tennis lessons, swimming lessons, and music lessons. Is that also something that your kids have been asking for and also budgeting with their own money as well? Or is that kind of education bucket?
Nilam Patel: It used to ask for that stuff a lot more than they have recently. So I had, um, put them in, like one of my kids I had to put in like a drama acting class and then they had soccer class and, um, piano and, you know, a couple of. Uh, flu or something like that. Like they, if they've had like the standard kind of suite of kids activities, um, that, you know, kids do summer camp and all that.
Um, but the, those type of things, um, I took under my responsibility for, you know, paying for and things like that there, first of all, some of them get pretty pricey. Um, I did, if there was, if they did ask for more than I could afford, I would tell them like, listen, I can't afford this right now. Can you pick your top two choices or whatever and go for that?
Um, so we did stuff like that, but I didn't, um, it was never something that would ever fall on their shoulders. And, and then on top of that, you know, obviously for the past two years or so, Year and a half. We haven't done anything anyways, because of COVID. So it's been a real money saver. I tell ya. COVID
Yan Wang: Yes.
Nilam Patel: I can't like go to restaurants, you know, I can't go try clothes , I can't do swatches at Sephora.... So there's nothing else.
Yan Wang: it didn't have to pay for childcare. Does save a ton of money, not having to pay for childcare. Oh my gosh.
Nilam Patel: Yes. That was amazing.
Yan Wang: So since you, your kids buy their own toys, basically. Um, do you notice that they take care of their toys better? Because they buy their own toys because my kids, I give them the toy. They really want they'll play with it. I will say like half an hour and then it's just like in with everything else and they never play with it again. And it's just, it's just there. And if it's, I have the little pieces pieces will be missing within like the first 10 minutes. Does that still happen with your kids? Do they take care of it better? Because they bought, they bought it themselves?
Nilam Patel: what you've just described sounds exactly like my younger son.
Yan Wang: Oh,
Nilam Patel: Yeah. His stuff is lost in multiple crannies of the house. Um, there's this remote control car that he saved up his money to buy. He played it on the first day and it's been sitting right here. Next to my couch for probably two months. Now, my boyfriend plays with it more than he plays with it that tells you something. That my older son, he's very careful with his items. He takes precious care over it, but he just has more about like responsible young adult mentality of being kind of the man of the house. Like he loves taking out the trash and helping me replace light bulbs and things like that.
Like he enjoys. Um, he enjoys kind of feeling needed and wanted and taking and helping out and taking care of the household. My dad for one, he's just this very spirited boy just flies by the seat of his pants. And I don't know if that's ever really gonna change, you know, sometimes the personalities. That type of personality where he's just not, he's just not as interested or, you know, he, he's kind of more of that person. That's more of that. Business-minded like social, you know, gonna make social contacts with people, maybe be a YouTube person.
Yan Wang: He's the future CEO, is what he is...
Nilam Patel: Yes, yes,
Yan Wang: Future entrepreneur, CEO. That's that's uh, that's the mentality. that's my husband's mentality.
Nilam Patel: that's exactly. That's what I think he's going to be. I don't think he's necessarily going to be this like responsible. In the box, like my older son, he's probably just going to go to college, become an engineer, you know, work for Google and have 2.5 kids. You know, that's my older son, my younger one. I don't think he'll ever kind of take care of his things really. Or, you know, at least for the foreseeable future, just the way he he is. And he's been like that for so long.
Yan Wang: Did your older son grow up faster when you had your divorce? Did you notice any kind of change? Because my daughter's best friend's parents are going through divorce. And as soon as that was happening, her their oldest son, who is, I think he he's going to be 13, but no, he one. 13, I think 14. Um, but as soon as he heard that, he was like, oh, I need to learn how to drive. I need to go do all this stuff. I need to help my mom cook. And I'm like, you're 13 years old. You're not going to go drive like at 13 years old, but like right away, he's like, I need to be no man of the house. Now I need to do all of these things.
And his mom was like, oh my gosh, you grew up like overnight. Did you notice that with their son? Or do you think that just his personality.
Nilam Patel: it's just his personality. Only because, um, he was four when I got divorced.
Yan Wang: Hmm. Okay.
Nilam Patel: he was still really little, I still was taking care of him a lot, you know? Um, but he always he's even said as a little guy, he's always had kind of the sense of taking care of others and being empathetic and being responsible and things like that.
But as he's grown older, he's just, I see, I seem to find that he just really enjoys kind of taking on that. Um, and like building things and using his hands and, um, helping me out and things like that. My younger one just needs cuddles. And he's good for the day.
Yan Wang: Yeah, same. Well, those cuddles are nice though.
Nilam Patel: know. I was just telling you Evonne, earlier today that I need both of them for tow, like for the exact amount, like. I need them both equally for two totally different reasons. Like I need my hugs and snuggles and mischievous and banter and silliness from my younger one. And I need my older one for that, like grounded, responsible, you know, good boy mentality, like equally.
But so, but still the same, like still a lot of.
Yan Wang: Yeah, no, no, it's the same with my kids. My older one's a lot more responsible. She's more quiet, more reserved. And then my younger ones like spazz. So. It's like, I remember when I was pregnant with my younger one, I was freaking out. Cause I was like, oh my gosh, I can never love this baby as much as I love my older daughter, but it's true.
Like, would they say you love them equally, but in different ways. And like, for me it seems like, it seems like they, like, my older daughter took my genes, some of my husband's genes, and then my younger daughter took my husband's genes and some of mine and they like put them together. It's like me and him, you know? So it just like crazy that how kids turn out that way.
Nilam Patel: Yeah, exactly.
Evonne Lau: Well, I just know I can't wait to be a mom. Yan knows. I'm preparing my life so that I can be the best mom that I can be. Is it's not something it's just not something that. I think comes easily. It's like my mind. Other than the fact that I want to do it and I feel ready now. So that's definitely going to be an exciting journey.
Um, and I know that we're heading up to time, but before you go, I know that you have a lot of great books and resources that you can share with us. What were the books?
Nilam Patel: Well, I have a couple of books here, um, for younger kiddos, the four to seven range. There's this book called, "If You Made a Million" by David Schwartz, which would be a good start. Um, for kind of that middle ground kids from four to, you know, early teens, there's two books. There's one called "The Everything Kids’ Money Book" by Brette Sember and, um, "How to turn a $100 into a $1,000,000" by James McKenna.
Yan Wang: I need that
Evonne Lau: I was about to say, can I can read books too, right?
Nilam Patel: I know, right. I mean, they're, they're, they're good books. They're... and it makes it, it puts it in a manner where it's more fun to learn about, you know? And then there's another book for teens for the older kiddos, like people, kids graduating high school or entering high school. And it's called "More Money Please", by Scott Gamm.
Evonne Lau: Thank you. And we'll definitely link those in so our listeners can click on them and enjoy them and read them. We need a lot more books in our reading list. I have definitely been using my extra free time just to read more books. And it definitely helps take the edge off of work and definitely helps reduce some stress. A little bit Escapism. Even if it is about money. It's about something new. And I feel like I can learn a little bit more. And I'm always learning a lot when I'm talking to you Nilam, I'm sure we'll have plenty of budget and money questions again, Um, and we're so excited that you were able to join us. Thank you so much.
Nilam Patel: It was so much fun.
Yan Wang: Thanks Nilam.
Evonne Lau: Thank you. Talk to you soon.
Outro: Thanks for tuning in! If you love this episode, let us know what you think by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, or you can reach out to us on our Instagram page. You can also find more content and episodes on our website Lost & Refound, soon to be Million Ways to Shine. Keep an eye out for new content on productivity and goal planning. See you next time!
